Doug Gerber - Drones, Cultivating Innovation in Traditional Farming

Discover the innovative collision of technology and tradition as we sit down with Doug Gerber, the visionary behind AeroVantage, whose leap from IT to agriculture is changing the way we farm in Central Ohio. Prepare to be captivated as Doug enlightens us on how drones are not just flying cameras but critical tools in precision farming, enabling farmers to monitor and enhance crop health with an accuracy that was once a distant dream. Our conversation takes you behind the scenes of this tech transformation, revealing the meticulous FAA certification process that ensures these high-flying innovations coexist with the regulations designed to protect our skies.

The agricultural landscape is ripe for disruption, and drones are at the forefront, offering a bounty of benefits over traditional methods. They're not just buzzworthy gadgets; they're reshaping environmental stewardship and operational efficiency in farming. We peer into the complexities and triumphs of incorporating drones into daily agricultural practices, discussing how they can fly lower to minimize chemical drift and leverage AI for unprecedented precision. Yet, with innovation comes challenge, and Doug doesn't shy from discussing the intricacies of certification and the investment needed to take to the skies legally and effectively.

3As we wrap up our journey through the skies of agriculture, safety remains our North Star. Doug shares how AeroVantage prioritizes the well-being of both crops and people, utilizing cutting-edge technology and strict adherence to guidelines such as those from the Ohio Department of Agriculture. The future of farming is ascending to new heights, and we're here to guide you through the ascent. For anyone curious about the field or looking to navigate the burgeoning world of agricultural drones, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and inspiration, sown from the seeds of expertise and vision that Doug brings to the table.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

time to hustle America, roll of our sleeves and make dreams happen. Midwest momentum brings you stories of CEOs, startups, product development and founders doing whatever it takes to make their big idea happen. Here's momentum host Michelle Gatchel hey, everyone, welcome.

Speaker 2: 0:22

I have a fantastic guest today, based in central Ohio, and wait till you hear about how he's using drones for his business. It's called arrow vantage and Doug Gerber is here to join me. Doug, thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 3: 0:34

I'm Michelle. Thanks for having me appreciate it yeah, I am a really excited.

Speaker 2: 0:39

I love ag stories in general because I love going to farms, visiting farms, eating the food from farms. Everything about farms intrigues me and you are using modern technology to help farmers farm better.

Speaker 3: 0:56

I am, yeah, and that's that. That's the the the nice thing about this. It's very rewarding and you get to see, actually, the results that occur after the hard days work within a few weeks. So whether you're applying seed or whether you know you're spraying fungicide on crops, you're really helping the entire food chain.

Speaker 2: 1:19

You know, flourish so what inspired you did? You grew up on a farm.

Speaker 3: 1:24

I did not grew up in farming communities, though, have friends that are farmers and really just through interactions with them, seeking to understand more about the industry and then with my technology background, both of them just really kind of merged found some synergies between the two and what's your technology background? I've been in IT for almost 20 years now, so I've yeah focused on technology application development, project management, automation of business processes and design, so several different areas of technology nice, so explain to everybody how you're using drones, sure?

Speaker 3: 2:09

well, a couple of things. You can do quite a bit with drones, right? So rarely the past year has been focused on application of chemicals in seed. So whether it's fungicide, herbicide, insect icide, all the sides right so so looking at protecting crop health with those chemicals yeah then additionally planting.

Speaker 3: 2:38

So if we, if we think about cover crops, which farmers put over top of crops toward the end of the season and prior to harvest, and then those plants then grow and they they till those back into the soil, puts nutrients back in the soil, helps with erosion, things of that nature. The drones also help in that area as well. So applying cover crop seed is another big area. Another area that's very, very much emerging right now is prescription health for crops. So having a small drone with a specific camera, payload design to operate in various light spectrums, able to go across fields, take images of the field and be able to display things like stand counts, which is how well the crops are coming in and growing. Maybe a certain part of the field needs replanted, for instance due to water damage or standing water. Not only that, but chlorophyll in the leaves, understanding the plant health and understanding if there's certain stresses being applied to crops or certain portions of the crops which may require some attention by the farmer so you know when I think of drones.

Speaker 2: 3:53

For instance, I I got for a nephew a little drone that fits in that palm of my hand, that has a little, you know, a handheld controller that can lift it up and buzz it around and has a little bit of camera that's fun to look at on your cell phone. I'm imagining this has to be a pretty big drone to drop off seats.

Speaker 3: 4:16

Oh yeah, yeah, it's rather large, certified up to 150 pounds of payload. So the drone is rather large, requires quite a comprehensive list of certifications in order to be able to operate that within the airspace. And from a recreational perspective, understanding, you know, flying safely recreationally is very important. Also, the FAA does have the recreational UAS safety test that they dubbed it the trust test and really it just. It really teaches everyone the airspace rules and where you can safely operate recreational drones and where you may not be able to do that. So highly recommend that to anybody flying recreationally.

Speaker 2: 5:06

So is there a whole set of different tests for doing something like you're doing?

Speaker 3: 5:12

There are. It's a. It's a completely different set. So, thinking about there's a part 107, which is first right and that's the first test you need to take. The 107 really dives deeper into the airspace rules that I mentioned earlier. We think about you know, operating within proximity of you know, airports and airspace that might be restricted and how high you can actually fly drones safely. That's all covered and much more in the part 107 exam, so that actually additionally allows you to operate a drone for profit, so you can sell services while flying a drone. It's the minimum requirement in order to sell services with a drone.

Speaker 3: 6:03

So, whether it's a small drone that you're selling, say, real estate pictures, you're taking real estate pictures with and selling those photos to an agent that requires a 107, or whether you're spraying a field with a heavier drone requires a base 107 to start with, plus others as well which I could get into.

Speaker 2: 6:24

Yeah, and this is all under the FAA, if people want to find this kind of information and what they need or are required for.

Speaker 3: 6:34

It is. Yeah, there's a couple of places they can go. They can go to FAAgov for slash drones. There's also know before you flyorg. But as you, as you go through the FAAgov website, you'll notice there's a lot of links depending on what type of flying you intend to do, whether it's recreational or 107 commercial, which is that is considered.

Speaker 2: 7:02

And so this is going to sound like a weird question, but not really. When you think about flying a plane and you have, like, your private license or your pilot's license, there is a lot of instruments that you have to be checked on and licensed, certified for it. This is going up in that same airspace. Is it instrument specific in that situation, like it is if you become a pilot?

Speaker 3: 7:33

It is and it's to an extent it's getting better all the time. So the software for a drone will now tell the recreational and commercial pilots, for that matter, if they're encroaching into controlled airspace. So up to, generally speaking, up to 400 feet in most areas, especially rural areas, is safe Beyond that. That's when authorizations are required, things of that nature. So the instrumentation, the remote control, if you will, for a commercial drone pilot will tell that pilot and in some cases not let that pilot take off with the drone if they're in controlled airspace. So that's relatively recent that the hardware and software has taken that leap forward in protecting everyone in the skies a little bit more. But really, knowledge and spreading the safety message around drones is really first and foremost, especially with the FAA. They really want to get that message out there to be safe with drones. One can buy the drones, but they ask that at least become knowledgeable of their space rules and have minimum requirements. All those are really covered in that trust test. So highly recommended.

Speaker 2: 8:57

But 400 feet. Is it above 400 feet that planes usually fly? Is that the deal?

Speaker 3: 9:04

Yeah, typically in most areas, that's the deal. Most planes are flying above 400 feet, correct.

Speaker 2: 9:12

And I have seen crop planes flying really low above crops, so I don't know how many feet above them 20 feet whatever and they probably have to get special licensees even to do that. Do you have to register somewhere when you're about to do a field that you're going to be in that space?

Speaker 3: 9:34

You do so? Good question. So notice the air missions the acronym is NOTAM, so you have to submit a NOTAM to the FAA indicating where you're going to be flying and at what altitude, within 24 hours of your flight. So, yeah, that way, anyone who is going to be flying in that airspace crop dusters are a great example you mentioned they're going to be reviewing all of those NOTAMs prior to them taking that flight route and they'll understand then what vehicles are going to be in their path potentially.

Speaker 2: 10:14

Let's talk about the benefits of having a drone. Do a prescription, if you will, for your crops versus a crop duster. I mean, money-wise is it about the same?

Speaker 3: 10:31

It is. It is pretty close Now. There's benefits to aerial, to the airplanes, there's benefits to the ground base and there's benefits to really all three that are unique to those specific vehicles.

Speaker 2: 10:48

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 10:49

So I would say with the drones the coverage is really the benefit there that you gain. You get corner to corner coverage throughout the field and your coverage even in the middle of the field is extremely even. So if you think about an application that might require two gallons per acre, for instance, that field will receive exactly that across the whole field.

Speaker 2: 11:16

Wow, because it has a little camera on it. And how far up when you spray, because a lot of times when I have seen crop duster, planes come flying by and I'm driving by, you smell that, you see, spray. It doesn't seem exact to me and I often think it's because it's too high off the ground and it's getting a lot more wind underneath there that's interfering, but can you fly nice and low so it doesn't take it long to hit the ground and hits your target faster.

Speaker 3: 11:50

Yeah, absolutely that's. One of the big benefits is chemical drift is what we have to watch out for as operators. The chemical drift is vastly reduced because we're 12 feet off the top of the crop. In those cases you can adjust that. But undulations in the land up down, that kind of thing it could take a moment or two for the drone to pick back up on the terrain changes. So 10 or 12 is very safe, not only for the drone but limits chemical drift.

Speaker 2: 12:27

So does it use AI in this Like, is it connected to satellite feeds about showing it the land? How does it? Or is it just going off its cameras when it's going over top of it?

Speaker 3: 12:37

So it is actually using satellites. It's using satellites and it optionally uses what's called here in Ohio the Cores Network. A lot of states have it where you can connect up to agricultural. It's really cellular towers that also combine with the satellites to improve the accuracy, in some cases down to centimeter level. So it's very, very accurate. You'll notice the drones take off and land in the same exact spot they were, with very little, if any, variation at all.

Speaker 2: 13:11

Now I kind of want to backtrack, because I was sitting here thinking starting a business like this because it's new tech, how hard was it to find information out to see if you really wanted to start something like this and how much it would cost to get up and go on.

Speaker 3: 13:26

Yeah, I'll tell you it's getting better all the time. Two years ago it was very difficult. There was the certification process, for instance, was not extremely well-defined, at least not publicly. There were only a small number of fully certified folks who had those certifications and if you're lucky enough to find one, they could help step you through the process, so really required some level of mentorship in order to get going in it.

Speaker 3: 13:58

Also, there's a lot of different ways you can go with the business and it depends from an investment perspective how large you want to build it. So what I mean by that is, if you want to be able to work sun up to sun down, you really need the ability to carry a large amount of water. So that increases the investment size with the vehicle and the rig. Also the number of drones that you have, and that changes, of course, some of the certification levels that you have. So you've got to have a pilot per drone, so increases your crew size. A lot of things to think about when it comes to the level of investment it takes to get going.

Speaker 2: 14:44

Did you have to get investors for this?

Speaker 3: 14:47

I did not, you know, I eased into it. I guess you could say yeah. I started with a drone, moved to another drone, so it started out just myself, ended up bringing on a couple more people. I just let it organically grow over time. Really wasn't sure initially what the uptake would be on farmers that were interested in this technology, so really wanted to just start with a drone and understand what the possibilities were, and as it turns out, there's definitely enough work out there for anybody who wants to get into this.

Speaker 2: 15:27

Yeah, I mean you can't just go to Toys R Us and get this kind of a drone. How readily accessible are these things?

Speaker 3: 15:39

They're very accessible. Actually anybody can buy one. But you know, in order to fly it that's where the rubber meets road, because you've got to be able to have those certification, those waivers, your commercial license. You've also got to work with your Department of Agriculture in your state and have a aerial commercial applicator license, much like a crop duster needs to have. So there's just a litany of certifications. You've got to make sure you have to be legal to fly it. But really, in terms of accessibility, the drones are available to anyone.

Speaker 2: 16:20

And let's talk about seasonal. When is your season, if you will, to work with farmers?

Speaker 3: 16:27

Yeah, really, it's say May through October, when you think about early wheat, and then cover crops toward the end of the season. Obviously there's a curve to that In the middle. With fungicide it's definitely much more. There's much more demand than there are commercial pilots, agricultural drone pilots that can take this on. So as the list of operators in the areas grow, I think we're going to see more and more drones out in the fields. I think right now the list is fairly small and I think that there's farmers out there that are still asking for drone coverage in their field that just can't get it.

Speaker 2: 17:14

Tell me this in the past life I used to be a media relations person for the HUD Department of Safety and Hygiene and with this kind of work I know painters have to wear safety gear as they're doing it. Are you in a full PE suit or do you stay far enough away? How does that work?

Speaker 3: 17:36

Yeah, ppe is a thing and that's actually covered under the commercial license for your agricultural entity within your state. So here in Ohio it's Ohio Department of Agriculture, so that chemical license from your state will have all the requirements in it for PPE and that's what they're testing you on. So your knowledge of understanding how you can mix various chemicals together, the orders in which they need mixed, how to dispose properly of those chemicals. That also comes with inspections. Here in Ohio it's usually every three years that you're inspected. So, yeah, safe handling of chemicals is a really big part of that certification.

Speaker 2: 18:21

specifically, Nice and then along those lines. I've interviewed farmers that are using satellite tech with their big tractors and things, and one of the big things that I heard repeatedly was the runoff, and you mentioned runoff a little bit, but how? Because of the drones and how they operate, how do you prevent that kind of thing?

Speaker 3: 18:54

So there's coverage for that. First off, it's important to also call out the insurance that is required. So there's chemical insurance as part of that coverage, that commercial coverage that's required, and that coverage comprehensively covers chemical liability. So there's two aspects to look at this from. One is hey, what if something does happen? The other is what are we doing to prevent it from happening? So some things that drones do really well, is that even coverage that I was talking about? So when you have a canopy of leaves and you're talking about two gallons per acre, there's not a lot of that that's actually in contact. If you think about a full, say, cornfield, for instance, there's not a lot of that chemical. Now that's getting to the ground. It's actually foliar, so it's being absorbed in through the leaves. So because drones apply the coverage so evenly, there's less of that that's getting into the ground water.

Speaker 2: 20:08

Gotcha, and not only when we talk about this. I am thinking like I don't know what the different name is, but I'm thinking flat crops, like field crops, but you also do orchards.

Speaker 3: 20:22

That's right.

Speaker 2: 20:23

And so how is that different? Because I'm imagining there's a line, you know, lin's Farm. I see lines and lines of apple trees. Can they get in between those? How does that work?

Speaker 3: 20:34

Yeah, they do, and actually they do it much better. You know, normally orchards are sprayed by hand, right? So that's exposing people to these chemicals, insecticides, for instance, with a drone. You take advantage of the drones, what we call the vortex from the props. So as you're flying over the orchard, we're not applying at a rate that requires fast speed for starters, so it's a slower flight path and we let the vortex do the work for us. So we spray in a certain area. The drone's moving slowly, the leaves and the foliage from the trees are turning and flipping, turning over, and we're ensuring that we get ample coverage all down through that canopy.

Speaker 2: 21:26

Now this is kind of a safety question, but kind of you know, we've seen in the news headlines from time to time a kid gets lost in a field and they have to, you know, go find this kid. If you're spraying, does your, is your drone? Is it you all the sudden seeing a kid? Or does your drone tell you anytime there's something in my way and go around it like how does that work?

Speaker 3: 21:50

Yeah, good question. So I can talk a little bit about the obstacle avoidance on it. It's different if there's a person that's, you know, below the canopy in the field. It's real important though, as applicators, that we ensure that there's. You know. All parties that that aren't part of the application process Are removed from the field prior to application.

Speaker 3: 22:12

But aside from that, the the Drones have obstacle avoidance on them that are very, very good. If there's a branch hanging out from a tree canopy on the side of the field and we're spraying along the edge, maybe the branch is there, isn't as visible through the camera the drone can still pick it up. And, yeah, depending on how you have the drone set up In settings, it could actually fly around that obstacle and continue along its path. If you don't have it set up to do that, then it'll stop. It'll alert you on the controller that there's obstacle in the way you manually maneuver the drone around the obstacle and it will begin then its autonomous flight. So, a lot of obstacle and safety measures. It won't fly toward, you know, say, a person. If you're taking off and in the direction of a person and it sees somebody Standing there and you're taking off at a low altitude, it will stop.

Speaker 2: 23:14

And so it uses artificial intelligence quite a bit for analyzing its situation. I.

Speaker 3: 23:20

Would say it's more of a. It recreates its surroundings and then Maps a safe route Around those obstacles. So it's more mapping software based than it is AI. When we get into the AI side of things, we're really looking at the prescription side In and you know, taking images of the field and then telling the software what a say, for instance, what a weed, a specific weed, looks like yeah and then the AI in the software, I'll say, okay, we can find the, the weeds in the rest of the field now and we'll tell you.

Speaker 3: 23:57

You know what areas of the field need sprayed, based on this AI algorithm and what you told AI, a weed looked like. And then you can feed that prescription then into the agricultural spraying drone and tell it to spot spray just those areas very cool.

Speaker 2: 24:15

So Average Suggestions for people that want to get into this. Where should they start?

Speaker 3: 24:21

Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely the FAA. You know, faa gov for slash drones. I would, you know, start there. I Would say, also, get your 107, because they cover so much in the 107 exam that is so critical to safe operation of agricultural drones. I would say, you know, so if everyone's safe out there, that does it, we don't have a lot of accidents. I think that's really going to help Propel this forward. But I think that's where you start. You start with the FAA. You know, take the 107 exam.

Speaker 3: 24:58

Yeah and then talk to your local farmers. Understand, you know, is this something they've looked at? Is this something they would be interested in? There's some farmers that are buying them for themselves but may not want to fly them. You know there's. There's a lot of opportunity out there, especially if you're in a rural, rural area and know some farmers. Just you know, chatting with them and understanding what the demand is for this type of thing I would say would be a really good first first start.

Speaker 3: 25:26

Also, understand, you know what the insurance implications are. The insurance is very expensive, so there's a lot of cost startup costs that you've really got to consider, not just the price of the drone, but the cost of the insurance, the cost of the rig. So really also understand if you're ready to invest in it, because it's really difficult Just to buy the drone. Yeah, make any, you know, real progress or money With it. You've really got to have the ability to carry large quantities of water, have the right pumps, be able to fill the drone quickly while it's on the ground, you know, have help swapping out these batteries. Especially, if you decide to move into more than one drone at a time, you have to have another pilot. So a lot of things to think about. So, yeah, we just map out your journey if this is something you want to get into and understand that there's there's a lot of startup costs involved.

Speaker 2: 26:19

And we didn't really mention it. But what was the time to get certified, Like how much time? I mean, I know people are different because some people don't take it all the way through right away, but in general, what's like a ballpark to get certified.

Speaker 3: 26:33

So that's changing all the time. The regulatory landscape just changed in 2023 with agricultural drones. After that, I got certified prior to these changes and it took about a year for me. Now it's possible to do it quicker than that. There's again a whole host of certifications you need it's 137, 44807, you know FAA everything's got a number right.

Speaker 2: 27:07

Right right.

Speaker 3: 27:09

So, yeah, understanding that you know the FAA's website can really walk you through the steps to applying for that, and then your application is put out for public comment and then you know the application process includes, you know, explaining your operation, developing some documentation, operational documentation on how you will safely use it in a shared airspace situation, and you know, away from, you know, people that aren't involved in the operation, and vehicles and buildings, things like that. So I would say all that should be, you know, something to take in consideration when it comes to timing, but I would say consider it anywhere from seven months to 12 months for that process.

Speaker 2: 27:58

Okay, well, doug, thank you so much for joining me and telling us all about AeroVantage, and how can people reach you if they're interested in talking to you more about it?

Speaker 3: 28:08

Yeah, my name is Doug Gerber. You can reach me at DGerber at AeroVantageDronescom.

Speaker 2: 28:16

There you go, all right. Well, thanks again, thank you, Michelle.

Speaker 3: 28:20

I appreciate you having me.

Speaker 1: 28:22

Thanks for listening to Midwest Momentum on your favorite podcast site and great radio stations across Ohio like WWCD 92.9 in Franklin, licking and Delaware counties and WDLR Herden, delaware, union and Marion counties. Now let's hear what's coming up next week.

Speaker 2: 28:43

Thanks for listening and happy New Year. We'll be back again next year with more stories from the Midwest of CEOs and founders making their big dreams happen. If you'd like to advertise with us, give us a call at 614-679-7819. 614-679-7819.

Speaker 4: 29:14

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